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	<title>Comments on: On Government as an Event</title>
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	<link>http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 07:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: quasibill</title>
		<link>http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-421493</link>
		<dc:creator>quasibill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-421493</guid>
		<description>Yeah, if we didn't have big brother to force "freedom" upon us, we would never be free.

Add libertarian (along with liberal and conservative) to the list of terms that can now officially mean diametrically opposed concepts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, if we didn&#8217;t have big brother to force &#8220;freedom&#8221; upon us, we would never be free.</p>
<p>Add libertarian (along with liberal and conservative) to the list of terms that can now officially mean diametrically opposed concepts.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Kuznicki</title>
		<link>http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-367879</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Kuznicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-367879</guid>
		<description>The anarchist position, to my mind, is the first of the three.  

The second holds only that one day we will be able to figure out how to make all government fully consensual, but that we are certainly not there yet.  

I am open to persuasion that, given the appropriate technology, some of which which perhaps I can't even imagine yet, a stateless society may be possible:  This hypothesis is based on the observation that technologies can and sometimes already do make government unnecessary in some areas of life.  Why might they not do this eventually in all areas?

(Note that advanced technology may also have the opposite effect, and may make it possible to establish a permanent all-controlling totalitarianism.  Of course, I do not believe that this would be a good outcome!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The anarchist position, to my mind, is the first of the three.  </p>
<p>The second holds only that one day we will be able to figure out how to make all government fully consensual, but that we are certainly not there yet.  </p>
<p>I am open to persuasion that, given the appropriate technology, some of which which perhaps I can&#8217;t even imagine yet, a stateless society may be possible:  This hypothesis is based on the observation that technologies can and sometimes already do make government unnecessary in some areas of life.  Why might they not do this eventually in all areas?</p>
<p>(Note that advanced technology may also have the opposite effect, and may make it possible to establish a permanent all-controlling totalitarianism.  Of course, I do not believe that this would be a good outcome!)</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Skaggs</title>
		<link>http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-367513</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachary Skaggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-367513</guid>
		<description>Democrats go Left when left among themselves, and Republicans veer right.  Similarly, put a bunch of libertarians in a room and a lot warm to anarchism.  Is this the result of a reasonable analysis of the feasibility of minimal government or is it a non-logical "groupthink" phenomenon?  We certainly would argue in the case of Democrats and Republicans, it is...

I won't attempt to answer that but I will say this: I never expected Jason Kuznicki to toy with the idea of anarchy ("Personally, I vacillate between the second[anarchy] and the third[minarchy]").  Groupthink (or even logic!) aside, you never seemed the type!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Democrats go Left when left among themselves, and Republicans veer right.  Similarly, put a bunch of libertarians in a room and a lot warm to anarchism.  Is this the result of a reasonable analysis of the feasibility of minimal government or is it a non-logical &#8220;groupthink&#8221; phenomenon?  We certainly would argue in the case of Democrats and Republicans, it is&#8230;</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t attempt to answer that but I will say this: I never expected Jason Kuznicki to toy with the idea of anarchy (&#8221;Personally, I vacillate between the second[anarchy] and the third[minarchy]&#8220;).  Groupthink (or even logic!) aside, you never seemed the type!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Olson</title>
		<link>http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-366797</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Olson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-366797</guid>
		<description>There is a published debate between Jurgen Habermas and (then) Cardinal Ratzinger on the topic (&lt;em&gt;The Dialectics of Secularization&lt;/em&gt;). In that book, the question debated was:

&lt;em&gt;Does the free secularized state exist on the basis of normative presuppositions that it itself cannot guarantee? This question expresses a doubt about whether the democratic constitutional state can renew from its own resources the normative presuppositions of its existence, it also expresses the assumption that such a state is dependent on ethical traditions of a local nature.&lt;/em&gt;

On your last question over the three "strong, moderate, and weak" forms of anarchic libertarian theory, it seems the question above is relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a published debate between Jurgen Habermas and (then) Cardinal Ratzinger on the topic (<em>The Dialectics of Secularization</em>). In that book, the question debated was:</p>
<p><em>Does the free secularized state exist on the basis of normative presuppositions that it itself cannot guarantee? This question expresses a doubt about whether the democratic constitutional state can renew from its own resources the normative presuppositions of its existence, it also expresses the assumption that such a state is dependent on ethical traditions of a local nature.</em></p>
<p>On your last question over the three &#8220;strong, moderate, and weak&#8221; forms of anarchic libertarian theory, it seems the question above is relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy Beck</title>
		<link>http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-366769</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-366769</guid>
		<description>"With an anarchic banking system, I would probably keep my money under the mattress."

A reading:

"Colonel Green admired to have adequate funds available in the form of pocket money in case emergency should arise.  Emergency arose on one of his frequent trips to Texas while he was breakfasting at the Adolphus Hotel in Dallas with Edward Harper, president of the Security National Bank.  Just as the sausages were being served, a pallid and shaken emissary arrived to apprise the banker that there was a run on his institution and that additional funds were in urgent request.

Unwilling to see his guest inconvenienced, Green pulled out his wallet and counted out its contents, twenty $10,000 banknotes.  This being insufficient for the emergency, Green sent a bellboy to his suite with instructions to fetch a battered valise which was on the bed.  It turned out to be almost entirely filled with $10,000 bills from which the Colonel counted out another thirty and handed them to Harper without requesting a receipt.  Half a million dollars proved sufficient to stop the run and the bank was saved.  Green sent the valise back to his apartment wit instructions to the bellboy to put it in the closet where it would be safe."

(Lucius Beebe, "The Big Spenders", 1966, p. 87)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;With an anarchic banking system, I would probably keep my money under the mattress.&#8221;</p>
<p>A reading:</p>
<p>&#8220;Colonel Green admired to have adequate funds available in the form of pocket money in case emergency should arise.  Emergency arose on one of his frequent trips to Texas while he was breakfasting at the Adolphus Hotel in Dallas with Edward Harper, president of the Security National Bank.  Just as the sausages were being served, a pallid and shaken emissary arrived to apprise the banker that there was a run on his institution and that additional funds were in urgent request.</p>
<p>Unwilling to see his guest inconvenienced, Green pulled out his wallet and counted out its contents, twenty $10,000 banknotes.  This being insufficient for the emergency, Green sent a bellboy to his suite with instructions to fetch a battered valise which was on the bed.  It turned out to be almost entirely filled with $10,000 bills from which the Colonel counted out another thirty and handed them to Harper without requesting a receipt.  Half a million dollars proved sufficient to stop the run and the bank was saved.  Green sent the valise back to his apartment wit instructions to the bellboy to put it in the closet where it would be safe.&#8221;</p>
<p>(Lucius Beebe, &#8220;The Big Spenders&#8221;, 1966, p. 87)</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-366661</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"Anarchic" systems develop stable, self-regulating patterns when there are well-established channels of communication and usually within limited communities.   In a small community, neighbors know each other and are known.  If I mistreat my neighbor, I know that there will be consequences.  If I mistreat a stranger who I will never see again, those consequences are less likely.

In small towns, professionals tend to be collegial.  In urban areas, this is less common -- the urban community of professionals is often large enough that stable relationships form more slowly and the community is more fluid, with people moving in and out.

Of course, mechanisms can sometimes be created to develop the communication necessary.  The ratings system in e-bay gives sellers a reason to be honest and gives buyers a reason to trust their seller.  It is not perfect, but it is very impressive.

With restaurants and hotels, the chains do very well because people know them.  The unknown is a risk.  Start-up benefit by having some known degree of government regulation.  I can risk the new restaurant I haven't heard of because I know the owners have certain legal obligations related to health and sanitation.  I use a bank or a credit card (dealing with people I don't know) because I know something of the regulatory environment.  With an anarchic banking system, I would probably keep my money under the mattress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Anarchic&#8221; systems develop stable, self-regulating patterns when there are well-established channels of communication and usually within limited communities.   In a small community, neighbors know each other and are known.  If I mistreat my neighbor, I know that there will be consequences.  If I mistreat a stranger who I will never see again, those consequences are less likely.</p>
<p>In small towns, professionals tend to be collegial.  In urban areas, this is less common &#8212; the urban community of professionals is often large enough that stable relationships form more slowly and the community is more fluid, with people moving in and out.</p>
<p>Of course, mechanisms can sometimes be created to develop the communication necessary.  The ratings system in e-bay gives sellers a reason to be honest and gives buyers a reason to trust their seller.  It is not perfect, but it is very impressive.</p>
<p>With restaurants and hotels, the chains do very well because people know them.  The unknown is a risk.  Start-up benefit by having some known degree of government regulation.  I can risk the new restaurant I haven&#8217;t heard of because I know the owners have certain legal obligations related to health and sanitation.  I use a bank or a credit card (dealing with people I don&#8217;t know) because I know something of the regulatory environment.  With an anarchic banking system, I would probably keep my money under the mattress.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Rowe</title>
		<link>http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-366452</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Rowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positiveliberty.com/2007/08/on-government-as-an-event.html#comment-366452</guid>
		<description>Interesting.  Though, as a business law professor I'd caution folks to be aware of the fact/value distinction, albeit a different one that philsophers are used to dealing with.  Fraud turns on &lt;i&gt;fact&lt;/i&gt;.  It's possible that the market could "value" a Big Mac as being work $10.  It's likewise possible that an individual could value a Big Mac for that amount.  Value, for the most part, is treaded, by law as an opinion.

The restuarant clearly would have to be asserting something not factually true, i.e. "this is filet mignon," or "Angus" beef, when they give something that, factually, is not.

This is one way that some restaurants can &lt;i&gt;legally&lt;/i&gt; get away with overcharging for crappy food whose quality is not worth the price.  But the same rationale applies; if you charge me for more than you are worth, that's a one trick pony:  I ain't comin' back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  Though, as a business law professor I&#8217;d caution folks to be aware of the fact/value distinction, albeit a different one that philsophers are used to dealing with.  Fraud turns on <i>fact</i>.  It&#8217;s possible that the market could &#8220;value&#8221; a Big Mac as being work $10.  It&#8217;s likewise possible that an individual could value a Big Mac for that amount.  Value, for the most part, is treaded, by law as an opinion.</p>
<p>The restuarant clearly would have to be asserting something not factually true, i.e. &#8220;this is filet mignon,&#8221; or &#8220;Angus&#8221; beef, when they give something that, factually, is not.</p>
<p>This is one way that some restaurants can <i>legally</i> get away with overcharging for crappy food whose quality is not worth the price.  But the same rationale applies; if you charge me for more than you are worth, that&#8217;s a one trick pony:  I ain&#8217;t comin&#8217; back.</p>
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